Welcome to another episode of Headspace for the Workplace! Today we're diving deep into how workplaces can support veterans' mental health while leveraging their unique experiences to craft world-class mental health programs. Our guest today is Dr. Joseph Geraci, a psychologist with the VA and a veteran with over 20 years of military experience.
Dr. Geraci shares that one of the crucial aspects of effective leadership is becoming an expert in areas that earn you respect. For him, as a junior infantry officer, this meant mastering the use of his assault rifle. The broader lesson here for workplace leaders is to deeply understand and respect the unique experiences and skills that veterans bring to the table. Dr. Geraci emphasizes the importance of "leadership by walking around" – being present and genuinely engaging with your team.
Veterans are accustomed to high expectations and thrive in challenging environments. Dr. Geraci advises workplaces to set high marks for veteran employees, offering them opportunities to grow and lead within the organization. He warns against relegating veterans to entry-level positions without avenues for advancement, which can lead to dissatisfaction and high turnover rates.
Veterans possess valuable skills in managing stress, resilience, and team cohesion – all of which are critical for effective mental health initiatives. Dr. Geraci mentions programs like the Master Resilience Training Course that many veterans undergo, equipping them to lead workplace mental health efforts competently. Encouraging veterans to lead these programs can foster a supportive environment and improve overall workplace well-being.
Dr. Geraci leaves us with a poignant reminder: "Respond with love. Love your subordinates, and it's amazing what you can achieve." This principle can serve as a cornerstone for building a vibrant, psychologically safe workplace.
Takeaways:
Become an expert marksman
Lead by walking around and having genuine curiosity about their life in the military, earn their respect by getting to know experiences and culture of your Veteran workforce
Set your marks high
Expect excellence from your Veteran workforce, don't just token hire.
Leverage their mental health expertise (many have had multiple trainings and vast personal experience) to co-design your workplace mental health programs and lead peer support efforts.
More about Dr. Joe Geraci
Dr. Joe Geraci, a retired Infantry Lieutenant Colonel with 20+ years of service, deployed to Afghanistan four times with elite units. He holds a doctorate in clinical psychology from Columbia University and teaches military psychology at Columbia. At VISN 2 MIRECC, he develops interventions to eliminate suicide in Transitioning Service Members/Veterans. Towards these aims, he leads two national VA programs, the Veteran Sponsorship Initiative (VSI) and the Veterans Cultural Competency Training.
Takeaways
Become an Expert Marksman
Lead by example and show genuine curiosity about the lives of your Veteran workforce. Understand their experiences and culture to earn their respect.Set Your Sights High
Expect excellence from your Veteran employees. Go beyond token hiring and leverage their mental health expertise. Many Veterans have extensive training and personal experience, making them ideal for co-designing workplace mental health programs and leading peer support initiatives.
Contact Dr. Joe Geraci
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-geraci-phd-psychologist-57092b34/
SHOW NOTES:
https://www.mirecc.va.gov/visn2/geraci.asp
https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT02627612
https://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/jcg2123/
Finley EP, Frankfurt SB, Kamdar N, Goodrich DE, Ganss E, Chen CJ, Eickhoff C, Krauss A, Connelly B, Seim RW, Goodman M, Geraci J. Partnership building for scale-up in the Veteran Sponsorship Initiative: strategies for harnessing collaboration to accelerate impact in suicide prevention. Health Serv Res. 2024. PMID 38689547.
Bulanchuk N, Edwards E, Pietrzak RH, Tsai J. The mediating role of social support in associations between childhood adversity, military sexual trauma, and homelessness in a nationally representative sample of US veterans. J Community Psychol. 2024;52(2):399-414. PMID 38289875.
Holliday R, Holder N, Edwards ER, Wong S, Jordan SE, Stewart K, Stimmel M, Monteith LL. Lower rates of VA service use among Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander veterans with criminal-legal involvement. Gen Hosp Psychiatry. 2024:S0163-8343(24)00073-2. PMID: 38641461.
Kearns JC, Edwards ER, Finley EP, Geraci JC, Gildea SM, Goodman M, Hwang I, Kennedy CJ, King AJ, Luedtke A, Marx BP, Petukhova MV, Sampson NA, Seim RW, Stanley IH, Stein MB, Ursano RJ, Kessler RC. A practical risk calculator for suicidal behavior among transitioning U.S. Army soldiers: results from the Study to Assess Risk and Resilience in Servicemembers-Longitudinal Study (STARRS-LS). Psychol Med. 2023;53(15):7096-7105. PMC10575670.
Geraci JC, Dichiara A, Greene A, Gromatsky M, Finley EP, Kilby D, Frankfurt S, Edwards ER, Solomon Kurz A, Sokol Y, Sullivan SR, Mobbs M, Seim RW, Goodman M. Supporting servicemembers and veterans during their transition to civilian life using certified sponsors: a three-arm randomized controlled trial. Psychol Serv. 2023. 20(Suppl 2):248-259. PMC10755060.
Kumar SR, Augustine MR, Sherman RL, Thysen JA, Zaidi M, Gorman DT, Geraci JC. Facilitating Veterans Health Administration primary care for transitioning servicemembers: a novel virtual care clinic. J Gen Intern Med. 2023;38(Suppl 3):913-915. PMC10356696.
Edwards ER, Coolidge B, Ruiz D, Epshteyn G, Krauss A, Gorman D, Connelly B, Redden C, El-Meouchy P, Geraci J. Situational stress and suicide attempt behavior in Army soldiers and veterans: insights from the Army Study to Assess Risk and Resilience in Servicemembers-Longitudinal Study. Suicide Life Threat Behav. 2023;53(4):642-654. PMID 37306332.
Geraci JC, Edwards ER, May D, Halliday T, Smith-Isabell N, El-Meouchy P, Lowell S, Armstrong N, Cantor G, DeJesus C, Dichiara A, Goodman M. Veteran Cultural competence training: initial effectiveness and national-level implementation. Psychiatr Serv. 2023;75(1):32-39. PMID 37554004.
Edwards E, Osterberg T, Coolidge B, Greene AL, Epshteyn G, Gorman D, Ruiz D, El-Meouchy P. Military experiences, connection to military identity, and time since military discharge as predictors of United States veteran suicide risk. Mil Psychol. 2023:1-14. PMID 37204335.
Edwards ER, Goldsmith MM, Tran HN, Bulanchuk NK, Epshteyn G, Wrobleski J, May DG, Snyder S, Lee AS, Schofield KF, Gorman D, Dichiara A, Geraci JC. Supporting the nation's transitioning veterans: narrative review of practices and recommendations for psychotherapy and counseling of veterans separating from military service. Psychol Serv. 2023;20(4):876-888. PMID 36048089.
Krauss A, Edwards ER, Ruiz D, Epshteyn G, Coolidge B, Goodman M. Understanding changes in aggression among U.S. Army soldiers: the role of trauma exposure during deployment. J Psychiatr Res. 2023;164:202-208. PMID 37356353.
Edwards, ER., Epshteyn G, Connelly B, Redden C, El Hage Moussa C, Blonigen D, Stimmel M, Holliday R, Osterberg T. Understanding criminogenic risk factors among United States military veterans: an updated literature review. Crim Justice Rev. 2023; doi.org/10.1177/07340168231160862.
Edwards ER, Epshteyn G, Snyder S, Gorman D, Coolidge B, Marcano E, Tsai J, Goodman M. Dialectical behavior therapy for justice-involved veterans: changes in treatment targets in a small, pre-post design clinical trial. Psychol Serv. 2023;20(Suppl 2):98-107. PMC10570393.
*Erratum in: Psychol Serv. 2023;20(Suppl 2):195.
Holliday R, Desai A, Edwards ER, Borges LM. Personality disorder diagnosis among justice-involved veterans: an investigation of VA using veterans. J Nerv Ment Dis. 2023;211(5):402-406. PMID 37040142.
Geraci JC, Finley EP, Edwards ER, Frankfurt S, Kurz AS, Kamdar N, Vanneman ME, Lopoo LM, Patnaik H, Yoon J, Armstrong N, Greene AL, Cantor G, Wrobleski J, Young E, Goldsmith M, Seim RW, Goodman M. Partnered implementation of the Veteran Sponsorship Initiative: protocol for a randomized hybrid type 2 effectiveness-implementation trial. Implement Sci. 2022;17(1):43. PMC9264302.
Gromatsky M, Edwards ER, Sullivan SR, van Lissa CJ, Lane R, Spears AP, Mitchell EL, Armey MF, Cáceda R, Goodman M. Characteristics of suicide attempts associated with lethality and method: A latent class analysis of the Military Suicide Research Consortium. J Psychiatr Res. 2022;149:54-61. PMID 35231792.
Edwards ER, Dichiara A, Epshteyn G, Snyder S, Linzer S, Riglietti K, Weishoff N, Lee A, Tsai J, Marcano E, Geraci J, Goodman M. Dialectical behavior therapy for justice-involved veterans (DBT-J): feasibility and acceptability. Psychol Serv. 2022:10.1037/ser0000691. PMC10481711.
Edwards ER, Epshteyn G, Dichiara A, Snyder S, Gorman D. Historical trends in veteran community substance use treatment: 2000-2019. Subst Use Misuse. 2022;57(10):1642-1645. PMID 35819019.
Tsai J, Edwards E, Cao X, Finlay AK. Disentangling associations between military service, race, and incarceration in the U.S. population. Psychol Serv. 2022;19(3):431-442. PMID 35878068.
Edwards ER, Tran H, Wrobleski J, Rabhan Y, Yin J, Chiodi C, Goodman M, Geraci J. Prevalence of personality disorders across veteran samples: a meta-analysis. J Pers Disord. 2022;36(3):339-358. PMID 35647770.
Edwards ER, Gromatsky M, Sissoko DRG, Hazlett EA, Sullivan SR, Geraci J, Goodman M. Arrest history and psychopathology among veterans at risk for suicide. Psychol Serv. 2022;19(1):146-156. PMID 33119341.
Edwards ER, Greene AL, Epshteyn G, Gromatsky M, Kinney AR, Holliday R. Mental health of incarcerated veterans and civilians: latent class analysis of the 2016 Survey of Prison Inmates. Crim Justice Behav. 2022;49(12), 1800-1821. doi.org/10.1177/0093854822112114.
Sokol Y, Gromatsky M, Edwards ER, Greene AL, Geraci JC, Harris RE, Goodman M. The deadly gap: Understanding suicide among veterans transitioning out of the military. Psychiatry Res. 2021;300:113875. PMID 33901974.
Edwards ER, Barnes S, Govindarajulu U, Geraci J, Tsai J. Mental health and substance use patterns associated with lifetime suicide attempt, incarceration, and homelessness: a latent class analysis of a nationally representative sample of U.S. veterans. Psychol Serv. 2021;18(4):619-631. PMID: 32852993.
Edwards ER, Dichiara A, Gromatsky M, Tsai J, Goodman M, Pietrzak R. Understanding risk in younger veterans: risk and protective factors associated with suicide attempt, homelessness, and arrest in a nationally representative veteran sample. Mil Psychol. 2021; 34(2):175-186. PMC10013446.
Vitale A, Byma L, Sun S, Podolak E, Wang Z, Alter S, Galfalvy H, Geraci J, Langhoff E, Klingbeil H, Yehuda R, Haghighi F, Feder A. Effectiveness of complementary and integrative approaches in promoting engagement and overall wellness toward suicide prevention in veterans. J Altern Complement Med. 2021;27(S1):S14-S27. PMC8035924.
Gromatsky M, Edwards ER, Sullivan SR, Goodman M, Hazlett EA. Distinguishing veterans with suicidal ideation from suicide attempt history: the role of emotion reactivity. Suicide Life Threat Behav. 2021;51(3):572-585. PMID 33665891.
Kamdar NP, Horning ML, Geraci JC, Uzdavines AW, Helmer DA, Hundt NE. Risk for depression and suicidal ideation among food insecure US veterans: data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Study. Soc Psychiatry Psychiatr Epidemiol. 2021;56(12):2175-2184. PMID 33770225.
Dichiara A, Brandwein D, Marks DR, Edwards E, Geraci JC. Mental health service use amongst veterans in a peer-mentor intervention: an analysis of barriers to treatment. Mil Behav Health. 2021;9:3: 335-344. https://doi.org/10.1080/21635781.2021.1888827.
Geraci JC, Mobbs M, Edwards ER, Doerries B, Armstrong N, Porcarelli R, Duffy E, Loos CM, Kilby D, Juanamarga J, Cantor G, Sutton L, Sokol Y, Goodman M. Expanded roles and recommendations for stakeholders to successfully reintegrate modern warriors and mitigate Suicide Risk. Front Psychol. 2020;11:1907. PMC7471060.
Geraci J, Murray C, Kapil-Pair KN, Herrera S, Sokol Y, Cary J, Landa Y, Goodman M. The modern-day Odysseus: how mental health providers can better reintegrate modern warriors and mitigate suicide risk. J Clin Psychol. 2020;76(5):878-895. PMID 31951284.
Botero G Jr, Rivera NI, Calloway SC, Ortiz PL, Edwards E, Chae J, Geraci JC. A lifeline in the dark: breaking through the stigma of veteran mental health and treating America's combat veterans. J Clin Psychol. 2020;76(5):831-840. PMID: 31926023.
Edwards ER, Sissoko DR, Abrams D, Samost D, La Gamma S, Geraci J. Connecting mental health court participants with services: processes, challenges, and recommendations. Psychol Public Policy Law. 2020;24(4):463. https://doi.org/10.1037/law0000236.
Aikins DE, Pietrzak RH, Geraci JC, Benham T, Morrissey P, Southwick SM. Beyond stigma: understanding the "inclined abstainers" in military behavioral health-care utilization. Mil Psychol. 2020;32(5):419-427. PMC10013392.
TRANSCRIPT:
r. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:00:11]:
Hey, everybody, it's Doctor Sally. And this is headspace for the workplace. And in today's podcast, we're going to be talking about what workplaces can do to support their veterans mental health, and maybe even more importantly, what workplaces can do to leverage the wisdom and the experiences of their veterans to make a world class mental health program. Tune in and listen to my conversation with Doctor Jo Durasi as we discuss these issues. Hey, everybody, it's Doctor Sally here. And this is headspace for the workplace. It's a podcast on how to cultivate vibrant and psychologically safe and healthy workplaces. And our goal is to help you up your game.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:00:51]:
And today we're going to talk about leading the way, about how supporting veterans mental health while also harnessing their leadership can improve your workplace mental health and resiliency. And I'm here today with Doctor Joe Gerasi, and he is going to tell us what our two teaser takeaways are. What are the two things people are going to learn today? Joe?
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:01:13]:
Number one, become an expert marksman. And number two, set your mark high.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:01:19]:
Okay, I'm not sure exactly how this is all going to tie into workplace mental health, but we're going to find out. Here we go. Tell us a little bit about yourself. What do you do every day? What's your job?
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:01:29]:
Yeah. So after serving 20 years as an infantry officer for deployments to Afghanistan, I came to the dark side. Now serve as a psychologist within the VA and a director within the VA, trying to help to save as many lives as we potentially can.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:01:43]:
Yes. Excellent. And for all of you out there, we met through a consortium called Face the Fight, where we're trying to reduce veteran suicide by 50% over the next five years. It's a daunting goal, but it's exciting to be a part of it. So thank you for saying yes and coming onto this program. Tell us a little bit something curious about yourself. What's something that most people don't anticipate when they learn it about you?
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:02:05]:
Something that people don't usually know is that I like to grow tea roses, and I like to kind of mature them. And so they're perfect, ready to present on the dining room table. And it's a good insight into my soul and my well being and my balance. If the roses aren't well managed and manicured, if black spots on there, they're starting to wilt, that means I need to rebalance myself. I'm out of balance.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:02:28]:
Wow. Well, I think gardening in general is a beautiful metaphor for life so that's wonderful. And you also add a lovely well being symbol into your home when you do that, that everybody can enjoy. Well, tell us really about what the passion is. What drives your passion? Why do you care about veterans mental health so much?
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:02:47]:
The biggest problem is that I have seen the bravery, the heroics of my fellow brothers and sisters on the battlefield. And it's really concerning to me that now we've got tenfold that died within Iraq and Afghanistan are now dying by suicide as they transition to civilian life. So that's what drives me every day.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:03:07]:
And you've had your own experiences with this as well. Can you tell our listeners about your own journey with your own mental health?
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:03:13]:
Sure. Yeah. After one of my four deployments of 2006, you know, one of my best friends, Tommy Bostic, and was killed in an ambush. And it really kind of put me on a pretty bad downward spiral and kind of brought me to a place where I was probably drinking a little more than I wanted to. I could see the impact upon my kids, and I just realized it was time for me to lead by example, because I was a senior army officer at the time, and I didn't have many mentors around me that sought care. So it was important for me to go and seek care of myself at a va vet center, kind of stand there and dance with the black dog, if you will, from a Winston Churchill analogy, and learn that two step.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:03:57]:
Well, thank you. And for those of you who haven't heard of Joe's work before, he's doing incredible research that is practical, that we can use to change the outcomes that we're seeing. And when I learned of his work, I knew that I had to bring him over to the workplace side of things, because some of the things he's talking about that we'll talk about today is around improving leadership and around improving community engagement. So here we go. Let's unpack that first tip. What did you mean by become an expert marksman?
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:04:30]:
Yeah, I think that goes well with, like, it's a two part, so become an expert marksman. And the other part of it is also leadership by walking around. So the first part, become an expert marksman. So I learned, is a very, very junior officer come out of West Point, is that the only way that I would earn the respect of my soldiers, who are, most of them older than me, is to become a master at my trade as an infantry officer. The most important kind of thing that we do is be able to use our weapon, our assault rifle. And I didn't grow up you know, becoming, you know, kind of, you know, rifle. I just didn't grow up with guns as much. So it was really challenging for me.
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:05:09]:
But something I knew I needed to work really, really, really hard at, and, and I couldn't shy away from it. I needed to, you know, oppose the shying away from it. I needed to go grab 5000 rounds and just kind of go to the range by myself and just constantly, constantly going so I could become an expert at it to myself. And what that really allowed me to do is then really earn the respect of my soldiers and to the point where they could kind of come to me with things. And that's where the leadership, by walking around, so it's one thing to walk around as a leader and not be respected. It's a whole other thing to be able to walk around and be a respected leader. So that one little simple task, being an expert at the trade that my service members valued and was so key and core to their profession, that I needed to be the expert better than anyone else at it, at their level, at their grassroots, or the way that they saw the world, was how you scored with your rifle. And as Abraham Lincoln, you know, kind of, really kind of embodied and exemplified leadership by walking around during the civil war.
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:06:12]:
You'll see lots of pictures, him on the front lines with his generals, with the soldiers, really kind of getting into their boots and seeing things from their perspective. And that goes a long way. So, number one, earning their respect. Number two, knowing that you care about them and you love them. And one of the best ways to do that is by walk around. One of the examples that we would do is we would send out patrol every single day in Afghanistan. And, you know, even though I was the senior, the senior army leader, I would just kind of jump in the back of the truck and just to kind of go along for the ride like I wasn't in charge, but just to ride along with my soldiers and just to kind of hear their stories on the multi hour kind of trip and just kind of being able to really understand what they were going through and their challenges and, you know, with that aspect of being an expert with leadership, by walking around, it's really powerful. What you can see when it comes to, and the most important thing is trust, as they really can kind of trust you.
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:07:06]:
And that's really, really powerful when it comes to the bottom line, to have people that work for you that trust you.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:07:11]:
And so this also requires an investment of time and effort on a workplace leader's part. If you don't have military experience. You need to go figure some stuff out. And again, I remember that when I was an intern at the Boston VA medical Center. I'm 23 years old. I don't have any military experience. I know nothing. And he said, they said to me, like, you will never gain the respect of these veterans if you know nothing.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:07:36]:
Go figure stuff out. And they gave us a whole bunch of things to read and a whole bunch of things to listen to and at least you know a little bit about what they went through. And it shows, by you demonstrating you have this knowledge, it shows that you went out of your way because you had an authentic curiosity to do better in this space. So, Joe, if they're going to become more expert marksman, they do have to have some deeper understanding of what the veterans experiences are coming into the workforce. How do you describe that? How would you suggest they go about doing that?
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:08:06]:
Yeah, I just keep it very simple and just shut up and listen and just be inquisitive and just ask them and be curious about the opportunities, and they'll be more than happy to let them know what their experiences were. It does take some ability for you to maybe do some kind of background research yourself. Like, hey, how many branches are there in the military? But other than that, like, veterans love to tell their stories and just be open and honest and curious.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:08:32]:
Exactly. Like, what better way to understand it than that firsthand knowledge. All right, let's move on to the tip. Two, what did you mean by set your marks high when it comes to workplace leaders trying to do a better job and creating their mental health programs, especially as it's serving their veterans workforce.
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:08:48]:
Yeah. So I would say setting your mark high means, like, really kind of allowing veterans to grow into their full potential. So set your mark high for them. So one organization that had a little bit of work experience with is they had this massive hiring initiative to hire as many veterans as they could. But majority of them came in as very entry level as baristas. And as you would imagine, very few of them gravitated to higher positions. And, you know, kind of at the end of the day, a lot of those veterans left that position. So at the end, I would say it failed.
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:09:23]:
Opposed to really allowing yourself to look at the skill sets, look at the experience that the veterans have that they can bring in and improve the organization, not just kind of like a token, hey, we hired a couple veterans, but really allowing yourselves to improve the organization. So you're talking about individuals that know how to deal with extreme stress. They know how to accomplish high expectations and tasks, very specific goals that go above and beyond all the time. It's put in our DNA as military leaders and as service members. So really allow that to come to fruition like that rose. It really needs to be new. You know, kind of have nutrients, it needs to be water. And then it can really kind of, really kind of grow into its full potential.
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:10:10]:
So don't set your mark high. Set your mark high. Don't set your mark low. Set your mark high on what they can really accomplish, and they'll grow to meet that, that elevation and expectation.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:10:20]:
That's right. I remember we were doing some work for men's mental health campaign called man therapy, and we were trying to create a military and veterans campaign for it. So I got to interview a number of people who had been active duty in war zones, and they had transitioned back, and I said, you know, tell me, why do you think the veterans numbers are so high? And they said, well, you know, partly the trauma, it sucked, and we're still dealing with it. But honestly, the part that's worse is that the transition back was nothing like we expected. And one of the big pieces of that Washington, that the expectations for them had fallen. Like, the expectations for us while we were serving were high, and the mission was important, and we excelled because of that expectation for us. When we came back, people were like, oh, yeah. And we failed because we couldn't find a pathway forward like no one was expecting this high level of excellence from us.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:11:13]:
And so I think that's such an important part. And the other part that I think is great, too, is the sense of camaraderie. You know, we talk about the delicate transition time in the first, upwards of a year coming out of active duty military into civilian life, and they're missing that sense of community, that sense of team, that sense of belongingness that workplaces can provide. And so both of those things together can do great work. But the other piece that I want to have you speak about is how they can not only have leadership roles in an organization that will probably exceed people's expectations because of all the training and experience they've had, but that they could also specifically lead in the areas of developing a mental health program. Can you describe that as well?
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:11:55]:
Sure. And it's important to notice, as we go through our different promotions and go from one position to other, we usually have about a year to be able to kind of spend and learn that next level. And so we really have a time to kind of develop ourselves. And one of those important things that we learned is how to manage stress and how to develop certain skills and trainings to kind of help to manage our organizations through this. For example, within the army of the master resilience training course, where a lot of the service members will go and learn how to become master trainers and resilience. And how do you optimize resilience within your organization? Or a lot of them have become, you know, kind of, you know, military sexual trauma, you know, kind of trainers or suicide prevention trainers or equal opportunity trainers. So really a skill set that can really be kind of leveraged within the civilian sector.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:12:46]:
Yeah. And I've seen them lead employee resource groups. I've seen them lead mental health champion groups that are driving forward these initiatives in their companies. And because of that excellent leadership skill and teamworking skill they have, they're really ideal candidates to lead the way for a lot of different workplace groups. So I'm going to go back and do a quick recap and then I'm going to come back to you for final thoughts. So again, I'm here with Joe Gerasi, and we're talking about workplaces helping support veterans in many ways, but also empowering them to lead their mental health initiatives and other leadership excellence opportunities within the workplace. And we're talking about the importance of becoming an expert marksman, which really means really getting to know this population and understand, hear their stories, understand where they're coming from and what they have to offer and being genuinely curious about that. As you're bringing veterans out in the workforce, it's not a token gesture.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:13:45]:
It is an important relationship that needs to be built. And then secondly, set your marks high. Give people opportunities to excel, to lead, especially in the mental health realm. So, Joe, what do you want to make sure that people walk away with?
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:13:58]:
I would say one of the most important things that I've learned as a leader is responding with love. Love your supportants, love your soldiers. And it's amazing, like, what you can end up with and really kind of allow yourself to meet those expectations.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:14:13]:
Always love the giddy middle and end. Always. If you start and end there, you will always do the right thing. So thank you, Joe, for that reminder. Thanks for coming on the program. Thanks for all you're doing with the research, the leadership and your voice. You've said to me a couple of times you're the only veteran between you and the president leading these kinds of things. And so it's really, it's essential that you're here.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:14:38]:
Stay the course. It's hard times, hard to be the lone voice on this, but you're doing amazing work. Thank you to all the people that are helping us put this together. Our huge team. Dave Mitchell, chase everyone. Thanks for your contribution to making this get into as many ears as possible. Thank you to all the listeners who made this a priority for your day. In closing, how can people best get a hold of you, Joe? If they want to learn more, sure.
Dr. Joseph Geraci [00:15:04]:
They can contact me my email Joseph Josph dot Juracgraciate excellent.
Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas [00:15:12]:
And we'll put a bunch of resources in the chat for those of you who are curious, along with Joe's email so that you can take your next action steps. So finally, as we like to say, working minds work well together. There's lots we can learn from each other to improve the well being of our workplaces. Until we meet again, take care.